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TRANSCRIPT:

*this transcript was mostly generated by AI, please excuse any mistakes

Amanda Holmes: Here is your daily dose of the ultimate sales machine coming to you from the new edition. Visit ultimate sales machine. com to get your copy or multiple copies. I am your host, Amanda Holmes, CEO of Chat Holmes International. What you’re about to learn has assisted a quarter of a million businesses to generate billions of dollars working faster, better, smarter.

Welcome everyone. Amanda Holmes here, your host of the CEO Mastery Show. I have on with me our executive strategy officer, Troy Aberle. And today’s guest is David Eigen, E I G E N, for those that are listening online and need to know. David is such a fascinating I’ve pulled him from behind the scenes, he’s not normally out in front, but I love his story, which we’re gonna uncover today, because we were talking about what he was doing in his business, and I loved He won one Dream 100 partnership.

5x’d his sales nearly immediately. So anybody that is listening to this that’s feeling, Man, I’m just not quite getting my ROI on my marketing. I feel like I’m doing all these things and it’s just not landing. I don’t know how to get consistency. This episode here today, we’re gonna cover how just one relationship, true relationship, could completely change your world.

Is that fair enough to say, David?

David Eigen: Yeah, I would say that it filled the pipeline. I don’t know about sales, 5X the sales yet, but because the relationship has been a long time coming, but it is going extremely well.

Amanda Holmes: Okay, good. 5X your pipeline. I’ll take it. I mean, for, for those that are on 21 different marketing mediums today and not quite sure where the ball’s landing and where they’re getting what they’re looking for, that’s a pretty good one place.

So, let me give a little bit of background for everybody, and you can fill in the holes here too. So, for those of you that are unfamiliar with David, he started in 1996 one of the first online marketplaces for vitamins and food supplements, which he then sold. Then he started Post Road Capital Management, and then went on to another company that managed over, he managed, correct me if I’m wrong, he managed over 7.

6 billion in assets. for joining us.

David Eigen: Not just myself, I joined a firm and was a co portfolio manager doing that, yes.

Amanda Holmes: I love it. And then that paved the way for you to start investing in companies and being passionate about health and what was going on in our health system. So in 2015, David started P5 Health Ventures, which focuses on Healing the healthcare system.

I say that because I recognize what you were talking about, and I’m trying to do the same. But you focus on disease management and decision support, which I love when you define for me what decision support is. Can you, for the fellow listeners out there, explain that?

David Eigen: Yeah, I would say it goes back to the Late 80s when I was in college and I was diagnosed with an autoimmune condition and Nothing made sense and the first doctor that I met with or maybe it was the third already told me I had this problem It was idiopathic and I started arguing with him about what that meant And I finally looked at him he said of unknown origin and I said so you don’t know he said well If I don’t know no one knows because he thought of himself as the best And that started a lifelong quest.

My argument there was I knew I had a very close family, friends, they had three boys with cystic fibrosis. And I said, well, they knew within weeks of birth, why is my problem at 19? And so I started in on nutrition and on other methods of taking care of myself. So Here I am, you know, 37 years later, and I never took a very strong drug, but I haven’t taken a drug in 33 years, and that started my own biohacking.

So I just felt that what I found back then into this day is the best doctors are sought out by everyone. They don’t have time to go do proper research. And then when you throw in things like the tort bar. Veer from what is common, your risk of going out of business as a doctor, being either because you’re sued or because your medical institution you’re affiliated with pushes you aside, that is a problem.

So back in 2014, 15 year old family friend who was a very well known physician asked me to start what became P5 Health Ventures. And the focus was that in the age of digital, you could start seeing all the patterns. So it’s pattern recognition. Decision supporter is an outgrowth of when you know what the inputs are and you can apply algorithms.

That’s why all the interest around AI today, how do you optimally first pick, there’s an old saying in programming, garbage in, garbage out, right? But if you have the right data coming in, you can have the right decisions coming out.

Amanda Holmes: So

David Eigen: that’s, that’s where I’ve always focused and I’m not a drug guy. I’m not a PhD.

So diagnostics, again, pattern recognition. So diagnostics lead to better information, higher quality information, easier to get information as we see patterns, see outcomes. Endless companies getting through the FDA, being able to look in your eyes and diagnose diabetic retinopathy, stress, anxiety, PTSD.

They’re very distinct patterns that show up in the face, and show up in the eyes, and show up in your blood pressure, and show up everywhere. And it’s just, how do you look for it? So that’s been a big focus for, you know, eight, nine years now, and that’s why I stopped managing portfolios of public equities, which is, you know, a little stressful.

Um, yeah, but along the way, we’re going to come back to this company to tie the loop. One area of interest to me is infectious diseases. I argued back in 87 with that doctor that I had an infection and he told me I was crazy And there is no microbiome that we discussed, but I did remember learning about it in high school biology, which was only a couple of years earlier.

So this company that we’re talking about that provoked this discussion is in the ultraviolet disinfection space for disinfecting hospitals and making them safe. And I did at one point, not in a hospital because I’ve never spent a night in a hospital, I did at one point have a gut infection. That I didn’t realize was that.

I thought it was just my problem. And I went several weeks until I diagnosed it myself. This was back in 94. But something I would never want anyone to go through.

Amanda Holmes: Hmm.

David Eigen: So.

Amanda Holmes: So then, and this is Leviant now. Yeah, it’s Leviant. So you invested in Leviant and then decided, Okay, this is enough of an excitement that I actually want to be CEO.

David Eigen: Yes. It’s an interesting enough and big enough opportunity which is How do you make indoor spaces safe for people? And if you put on the hat I have around what was called alternative health, now, you know, functional medicine, integrative medicine, it’s the same approach. How do you take a non toxic product to take the place where possible of toxic products?

To me, when you’re addressing a problem and you’re looking at an opportunity, It’s how big is that opportunity and how big are the pain points that will provoke change and in our case I viewed an opportunity with this company where I started as an investor and then took over with a group Because the industry of cleaning indoor spaces has to change it is very hard to get people to do the work And a big part of it is the time, the energy of sitting, you know, inside a building going around eight hours a day.

And the other part is toxic chemicals. Toxic chemicals are bad for patients or guests in your hotel, or in your arena, or in your school system, and they’re really bad for the workers. And they really don’t like working with them, which makes it very hard to hire and keep and train and retain personnel.

So that’s how I came to see this as a significant opportunity.

Amanda Holmes: I love it. So then you first focused on hospital systems? Was that where?

David Eigen: The company focused on hospital systems and the key here, like any, like any good businesses, you get your core business down. Call it the cash cow and then our focus is to take every extra dollar reinvested in new form of factors and new ways of Cleaning and making indoor spaces safe for everyone such that as we bring the cost down everyone in any environment no matter what their Socioeconomic level is they have access to the same level of care and safety that anyone else has

Amanda Holmes: So in that startup mode, many businesses say, okay, I need funding.

How do I find the funding? And then I’ll start building a marketing system to go to each hospital and try to get in with the decision makers. And it’s a lengthy process. What I love about, and why I asked you to come on today is because you had found a partnership or a joint venture, whatever you may call it, but that one relationship where they were already.

And correct me if I’m wrong, they were already selling to the decision makers. They just could add in your product to what they were already selling. And it brought you 5X the amount of business. Is that correct to say?

David Eigen: Yeah, I’d say it’s 5X in the first six months. We haven’t even really pierced the veil of where it’s taking us.

Amanda Holmes: Love that.

David Eigen: They, they already had a partnership with a competitor. Um, the issue in our business in particular, but especially in anything in healthcare, if you can’t materially improve workflow,

Amanda Holmes: you’re

David Eigen: not going to get adopted. There’s healthcare in particular, but people in general don’t love change, right?

It’s painful, it’s time consuming. Sometimes just the anxiety around it is painful, even if in the end when you do it, speaking as a lifelong procrastinator, in the end, Once you start, sometimes you’re 20 seconds in, and you’re like, Oh, why didn’t I take care of this six months ago? But in healthcare in particular, you have to be much, much better than what’s there, and there has to be enough pain to drive it anyway, because inertia sets in, people find a new level of homeostasis, and they’re like, this is fine.

Until they realize this was worth the change. So, but that’s what this company does. It is infinitely faster and more effective than any competitive product. And it is fast enough. And I felt that with the right investment and understanding workflow, that we could actually. Add in what we do, ultraviolet disinflection, that we could actually add that in and decrease the time it takes to turn over an emergency department, private room, a operating room, a patient room, any, and hospitals, just like hotels or anywhere else, they need turnover, they need throughput, time is money.

And if they can’t get their patient, Out of the emergency department and into a private room, then everything backs up, or if they can’t get that operating room turned over and safe, and they wind up having a, they, technically an HAI, a healthcare associated infection. Or in the case of a hospital, I just refer to it as hospital acquired infection.

Those cost a lot of money. They prevent the bed from being filled by a paying customer. The ROI on something like that is tremendous. So the hospitals are willing to make that an investment.

Amanda Holmes: Hmm. Any, any quantifiable data on that? Like, in your studies you found, or a great client you found? That they saved amount of time or

David Eigen: there’s a Stanford study that said that in the average HAI when you encounter this shutter effect in the average across all the expenses and cost up to a million and a half dollars for one infection, I’d say that true cash costs either through opportunity cost of losing a bet per a few days.

The range we’ve seen is between 17, 000 and 47, 000, so, but the range can be a lot higher. So the ROI for our device is for an average size hospital, they’re probably going to get, if they’re going to use it systematically, they’re probably going to get two to three times their money in the first year, maybe more.

It, it’s hard to convince a hospital CFO and the team of that value proposition, even, even if they know it and they have the data, it’s very hard to convince them. So it is.

Amanda Holmes: Wow. Well, Troy, anything you want to add to that?

Troy Aberle: Well, I have a question in some of the hospitals and medical facilities. Is there ever a cost associated with if they know that they have a virus or a problem that could have been cleaned, should it be cleaned?

And they have the ability to do it better. Is there a liability issue that can cost the hospital money because they’ve exposed more patients to something that they could have prevented by utilizing your treatment?

David Eigen: That is a classic litigation issue. And I actually went to law school. Uh, I still pay my New York dues, bar dues, but that, that was like the first day, like, you know, catch up on the aisle, floor, the supermarket, at what point is 20 minutes enough, an hour enough, when someone should have known, and then before someone slips and falls.

And we had another more extreme idea the first week of torts. Hospitals. They get penalized if they’re above a certain number of infections, either by CMS or Medicaid, Medicare, or even by private insurance, which has followed suit on how the government’s handled these. And then they have liability insurance.

I haven’t seen class action lawsuits, and I do know that there are lawsuits for people who get infections in the hospitals. What their liability is, I think, would probably differ by state, but I actually don’t have a direct answer. It’s not uniform, but you’re 100 percent right that those are the factors that would come into play in a litigation.

You should have known. We know, I can tell you that every hospital has reports on MRSA, CDF, Candida, Horace, etc. And they have daily reports, so they know when those infections come. And they know whether, the typical guideline is, if someone shows an infection within the first three days, it’s deemed not acquired in the hospital, and after three days, it’s deemed acquired in the hospital.

That directly affects the patient. They’re liability and whether they can continue to get paid, say, by insurance or

Amanda Holmes: fascinating.

Troy Aberle: And the same question that came for me also in old age homes, if you will, or assisted living, because if you do have a spot that or an outbreak, how do you quickly get rid of that problem?

Where it could actually cause people to become vacant of their rooms where people move out or they don’t feel safe. So now you have a vacancy, right? And so when I first met your company, I was thinking of all of those things because I do have a grandmother in an old age home that did get exposed to a whole pile of conditions or viruses that were in the place, but then they had people moving out because they were being stuck to the room and they felt unsafe.

So to me, there’s a huge cost there. That was being missed out on. That’s where I fell in love with your product and was going to also use your product in the workplace because I also know that lunch rooms and boardrooms and all of those places do house a lot of things that we don’t need to take home.

And there’s a cost to having employees at home for two, three weeks, right? Unfortunately,

David Eigen: long term assisted living is probably the best place to have these devices and they have the least money and getting them to spend. And so in our business. Um, we took over this company and even the pricing for what I call old co before we created new co.

Pricing was insane and whether it’s a hospital or a nursing home or even if you’re going to move into hospitality, which we are, people think you’re selling a device. And then I had investors say, you have by far the best product. You should keep your pricing high. And I said, well, but if I keep my pricing high, you have to realize.

And, and this goes in down to your, whatever product you have, what’s the value proposition and how am I going to effectually change such that they have to have my device. In this case it’s devices because what we’re doing is we’re selling a solution, we’re not selling devices. It, it ultimately is a service because we are constantly innovating in ways to work this into workflow, to change the form factors of our device, they get easier and easier and faster and faster to use.

And we price it appropriately, each customer will buy, I prefer to them as clients, will buy more and more devices such that in the end, if you look at it as a solution. And you look at the total number of units is what you’re selling, not each individual unit. You will get more dollars out and you will, by having that footprint, you will have more data points.

You will have more data coming in. We can learn more. We can keep improving. And then you wind up in continuous improvement. And then you just don’t shove high prices through. You do what Amazon has done. Amazon has, the more value they offer, the more they bring the price down. And Walmart’s always done that.

And you become untouchable over time. And so our desire, you know, this partnership we have, if we misstep, I don’t care how nice, and there’s some of the nicest people, I’ve never been, never worked with a company with this many nice people. But if we misstep, I would be the first ones to tell them, you know, you should find a better partner.

So our job is to create a better and better solution and to make it so that they really, like Steve Martin, you know, was the comedian. And terror is yet to be so great they can’t ignore you.

Amanda Holmes: Yeah,

David Eigen: yeah.

Amanda Holmes: That brings me back. And so, as everybody’s listening to this, we teach a thing called the Dream 100, right?

The fastest, least expensive way to do snaps. I

David Eigen: know it well.

Amanda Holmes: I, well, you’re a living, breathing example of it. And what we find is two of the biggest mistakes that people make when trying to deploy Dream 100 is, first, they think they need a hundred companies, and that’s how Dream 100 is done. It has to be a hundred.

Which, it doesn’t matter. You could have one, and you’re a perfect example of this, right? Two, and you got one of them and it 5x your pipeline. And then the second biggest mistake is that people become more transactional rather than thinking about the longterm, because this is somebody that will completely change your world.

So can you talk to me a little bit about what that process was of identifying it? Because very often they’ll say, okay, a hundred. Oh my gosh. And then they get overwhelmed and then they. Thinks so transactionally that they’re not thinking about the bigger picture. And then the third biggest mistake is then they can’t figure out which ones they are and they don’t commit to them.

And this is something where you have to have pig headed discipline and determination to continue. So can you walk me through how you decided who that would be? And then what was the process to get to a point where they became somebody that they trusted you?

David Eigen: So it started with a large customer of Olco that I was introduced to when we bought the assets of the company and I got to know them and all 10 of their hospitals were cleaned by one company.

And this started during the due diligence phase before the transaction. And I started looking at it and I already knew, cause I knew one of the companies, I knew this company that we’re actually partnering with. I knew a lot about them from my past days as a public equity investor. And ironically, so, so we have this company we’re working with now.

We do work with this other company. This other company is actually owned by. A British conglomerate, and I own that stock back in 2002 to 2000, probably five. Oh, wow. I have a bit of a history. Okay. If you look at the industry of cleaning hospitals, stadiums, arenas, school systems, universities. Commercial office buildings, which is probably the least interesting to us.

Although some of our competitors did find them interesting. I’m not sure if they still do. And there’s a handful of them that do this. I’d say over half of hospitals have their own team that cleans. The problem there is a lot of hospital systems are just roll ups and they don’t integrate. So if you want to be efficient and you’re a smaller company and you don’t have unlimited people to go running around, you look for the.

Partnerships where you can become a standard. So every. Startup, especially in digital health and all the areas I invest, everyone wants to be a standard. So we’re trying to become a standard. And the best way to do that is to find healthcare systems that standardize how they clean, that have a lot of top down leadership.

And then also then in particular, if you can get to those companies that’s outsourced to. So this partner, we have their largest businesses are all food service and then all cleaning. And they do it throughout all commercial endeavors and help. They have a large healthcare arm. And that’s how we came in through the healthcare.

So we targeted them. One of our investors and board members had a relationship with an executive there. It actually didn’t get us there, even though she was high up. And then I had a friend who had been an investor in this company and I didn’t want to bother him and I didn’t bother him for about a year.

And then I finally said, okay. I sent him a short email and he sent a short email, a couple, like a two line email a couple hours later to the right person saying, please take a look at this company. And that started something. It took another four months to get a meeting and a lot of emails, a lot of back and forth.

And then I was able to get a meeting down in Philly. We shipped our devices down just from the New York area. Not that bad into a nearby hotel. There’s one executive came over and looked at them and said, Oh, I get it. Okay. And, and it actually, what sparked it, what got us to prevent four months from turning into eight months or a year was they had a client that had a specific need and one of the devices had a specific application there, but then The other device is what she really liked.

Now, both devices, one cleans entire rooms, one can wrap around equipment. So, like in a hospital, you can put it in the middle of a room at 4 12 feet by 4 12 feet for like a wheelchair, or a portable ultrasound, or Or you can put it up against the wall at nine feet by four and a half feet. And you can do an entire gurney or, you know, beds, operating room tables, any type of equipment.

That was the initial one, but the one for rooms, that’s where turning patient turnover. And we immediately offered our equipment to go do a trial. They started a trial. It took another two to three months to get that trial organized. Then ship it down. It was North Carolina. Then we had to do testing. Then the testing didn’t the way we first did it.

It was not optimal, so we did another way and it took four months to get through that.

Amanda Holmes: Okay.

David Eigen: And then we got great data and then we have done a white paper with them and the data’s off the charts. We knew it would be because we had done data, the data was done before my group bought control of the company and then it’s taken off from there.

And once that white paper was done, everything just, they really opened up their partnerships. And that’s a long winded way of saying it’s just mushroom from there.

Amanda Holmes: Wow. I’m sure Troy could speak to this too. We ask a lot of doing surveying and we’ll do this with clients very often. We’ll have them survey their own clients and we’ll get that feedback because very often businesses don’t have data on what actually makes their business successful and they don’t ask their clients.

For very clear testimonials and we just find that to be such an amazing find when a company’s willing to ask their own Clients if they’re getting results and how they’re getting results and then you find these gems that you didn’t even know about and you weren’t Using in your marketing approaches.

So I love that you actually did a trial on it to get that data to win them over That’s so great. Troy you want to speak to that because I know you do it a lot with our clients

Troy Aberle: Yeah, I think it’s a great question is, is how often do you reach out to your customer to figure out where are the pain points or where they’re seeing opportunities to make sure that you can match up some of those products and services that you do.

For instance, at John Deere, I didn’t realize how much stress was under people that was causing them to have marital problems or mental health problems, physical problems that were really big. And then. Being able to position your product to being able to solve those problems. And I can see that very easily for you, David, and your clients is that there are a lot of nights that sort of days that you can’t get people to do the work, which is causing a whole nother layer of employment issues.

Our whole

David Eigen: policy is that even people who are running sales for us, or they know how to train people, They know, it’s just a constant cycle of being on site, of always talking. Every person who joins our sales force, the very first thing they get is the book up on the, I know it’s a, it’s not sitting there in the room with you, but the very first thing they get is the ultimate sales machine.

And that frames their training and how to think. But we are constantly asking. One of our investors recently said, how do you even know how they use your devices? You’re not following them into the room. I said, well, actually we do follow them into the room. And, and then he pushed back and said something to the extent of, yeah, but you don’t know what they do when you’re not there.

And I said, that’s the point of a relationship. First of all, we watch the data so we can see when they’re deploying it. We can see how often they’re deploying it. We have constant interaction. We go back, we watch, we train, we retrain, we make sure that the arms are extended in the right way. We do all these things and we’re constantly training.

There’s no perfection, but everyone that has any customer, even if they are on autopilot, they have to be back in every month, no matter, worst case, every month, preferably every couple of weeks. Checking in, talking to the workers, has there been turnover? If there has, anyone need to be retrained? So it’s this ongoing relationship.

We guarantee, device cannot be down for more than 24 hours, so we provide that and every time any, I’ve always viewed, this goes back, probably back to when I was in undergrad business school, turning every cost into an opportunity to further the relationship. So, always finding, it’s just our culture, it’s drilled in and taught.

Amanda Holmes: And you had mentioned before we hopped on here that one of the huge benefits of this particular partnership is that you do have a similar belief system, you have a similar culture between the two companies. I can’t tell you how many times we have clients that just hate who you work with. And it’s like, okay, well, who do you enjoy working with?

Let’s craft this out and actually create your outbound so that you work with people that are like minded and then they will become your raving fan Dream 100 client because they keep coming back to you because they love working with you.

David Eigen: We actually joke, various people I work with, because if we walk into a hospital and they have staff in all these hospitals, and we tell them how nice they are, and then we feel like we have to tell you, say, look, this is not BS, we’re just constantly amazed.

So, and I mean, I’m learning left and right on how to build a culture from this company where literally everyone can be nice. It’s just staggering. And I know the competition and the other big competitors are not nearly as consistent. Plenty of incredibly nice people everywhere, but there’s not that consistency.

It’s fun. Makes it very enjoyable.

Troy Aberle: Amanda and I talk about that as having a financially profitable customer is awesome, but having an emotionally profitable customer is absolutely everything you really want in life.

David Eigen: It makes it sustainable. I mean, you hear all this stuff about time management, but it’s really not time management.

It’s energy management. Right. When you go and you work your tail off on something, and sometimes when it’s rewarding and there’s good people and they’re not draining you. I have a book somewhere on the other, the wall you can’t see, I must have, I don’t know, I think according to Amazon, 1, 500, 1, 600 books just from Amazon.

One is about, I forget the first part of the title, but it’s about energy vampires and identifying energy vampires. And someone forward, someone, I don’t know if they sent it to me because I just buy everything on impulse. If it looks good and has a decent rating, a little exaggerated, but, and this book, I read probably 50 pages of it and it lays it out beautifully and it’s just spot on.

But there are people you grow. It’s not a zero sum game.

Amanda Holmes: Yeah. Yeah, so for those listening, David Eigen, E I G E N, you can find him on LinkedIn, but also, if you have a business that you think might need some of his brilliant brain power and maybe a little bit of that help on the funding side, E5HV. com, that’s E5HV.

com. P as in Paul, the number 5, HealthVentures, H V dot com, and then also, the one that you’re currently running, Leviant. How did they find Leviant? It’s

David Eigen: just leviant. com, L E V I A N T dot com.

Amanda Holmes: Great. Well, it’s been such a pleasure. I’ve taken away so much from this. It’s not always about a hundred. It could just be one that could completely change your world.

And it’s about finding value of not just, Hey, we’re already speaking to these particular clients. It could increase our current amount that we’re spending with them. But then also that there’s a cultural alignment, which is so great. So working with people. That you have similar belief systems with so that every day is just a little bit more joyful and you appreciate just a bit more.

David Eigen: Absolutely. I appreciate both your time and interest. I hope I added some value.

Amanda Holmes: Yes.

David Eigen: And some insight. Oh yeah. And I thank you.

Amanda Holmes: And that’s it for this week’s episode. CEO mastery show, make sure to get your copy or copies at the ultimate sales machine. com. There’s a lot of special bonuses that you can’t get going to Amazon.

So make sure you check it out at ultimate sales machine.